No doubt you've seen RI's Angi, you'll notice they have all the gunk in their mouth, it all bubles up from the lungs due to build up, the same applies with thinner mucus but it is easier to run out of the mouth once there, the craning they do helps stretch the lungs and dislodge the mucus a bit, if ever you've seen a snake with RI drink you'll notice how the gunk just sits there but with thin mucus as they put their head down to drink the fluid will come out.

I have before now with a chronic RI, taken the snakes into the shower with me, steamed em right up and held them tail to ceiling, head to floor and the mucus literally drains and pours out like runny snot (sorry no better description) and i find this helps.

They can't cough no but thinner mucus can travel more freely with movement, think about holding a bottle on its side and gently moving it back and forth, if you had syrup in there it'd gently sludge but not much, if it was water it'd lap right to the top, whether this is the exact science of it in my non-sciency description i don't know but seems logical to me and it works really well.

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Yes, I have seen RI's but only once in my personal collection, its usually as snakes that are stressed due to shipping that I see it in or when people bring snakes to us for advise when they are ill.
Yeah, it makes sense that the secretions will travel down with gravity, but I have to say that one common behaviour I have seen in snakes with an RI is that they frequently hold their heads up, as opposed to down, wierd eh? I have taken a particular interest in ill reptiles and their treatment, but my health has not been good enough to allow me to work back in our shop for quite some time now, so Ive had no opportunities to chat to the vet about it - but I must ask him next time I'm over there. I would also like to know what conclusion he eventually came to regarding F10, as I use it at home. If I find out anymore i will post it here.

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right I have written to a friend who may be able to clear my brain fog on this one - this is what Ive written ( might help explain a bit more about where Im coming from (Mars???))
"I wonder if you could help me to understand an aspect of recovery from RIs in snakes.

It seems increasingly popular to treat them with a nebuliser these days. Now I can understand this treatment in animals that can cough the less viscous secretions out of the respiratory system, but I am left wondering why this treatment is used in snakes when they cannot cough. Surely the nebuliser would make the secretions less viscous with the addition of higher humidity - but then would that not increase the volume of secretions, even if it is "thinner" so to speak - would this not lead to further complications - ie more like a pneumonia so severe the snake would almost drown in its secretions? I need some help to get my head around this one as it doesn't seem logical to me - I must be missing something. But then only a few years ago treatment often involved ensuring humidity was kept low and temperatures raised slightly which would help dry up the secretions."

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i think the reason rachel advises holding the snake up by the tail is to allow the secretions to naturally run out. tail up head down and the secretions will head towards the head.
i dont know if the treatment they used to advise for croup would help too. i was told on a couple of occasions to boil a kettle in a small room and sit in there with my daughter, when she was a baby.
but i think a nebuliser would be a handy thing to have.

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Reptiles lack some of the enzymes required to make solid pus liquid so their respiratory secretions tend to be quite thick and hard and can attatch to the walls of the lung. I have endoscoped snake lungs and seen the pus firmly attached. this makes treatment difficult as the pus can act as a nidus of infection making antibiotics less effective. i have also post mortemed large pythons that have had a thick clot of pus in their windpipe and died as a result of asphyxiation. The purpose of nebulisation is purely to loosen and break down these secretions. F10 is commonly used and is an antiseptic also but you can nebulise with just saline. I tend to use an antibiotic/saline mixture. Coupage also helps to loosen these secretions from the lung wall and holding them upside down also helps drainage as the clearance mechanisms we have are poorly developed in reptiles

Thankyou Rodney. So - if a nebuliser is used to loosen secretions then we need to actively ensure the snake spends some of its time with its head down (ie as rachel describes), not just expect it to get better on its own? That makes more sense to me.
I think I was just looking at it in an anatomy and physiology way, I just couldn't see how the snake would get rid of the secretions on its own. But it seems necessary to include positional changes as part of this treatment regime - I wonder how many vets do actually prescribe this. Its almost like physiotherapy for snakes

In the past, I have been advised treatment including ensuring low humidity and raising temperatures to dry secretions up (on a boa I bought with an RI about 5 years ago). Maybe this was poor advice, but she recovered quickly and has never been ill since.

Anyway, its a good topic to discuss and always useful to increase our understanding.

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could the nebuliser be used as preventative. maybe run it a few times a week with the f10 just in case, or is it better left till there is an actual ri there?

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When I see a snake with a respiratory problem I try to identify any issues that may have led to its development eg some change or deterioration in the environment. I think the best prevention is appropriate husbandry which isnt an issue for experienced keepers like yourselves. So i dont find it generally necessary to nebulise them as a preventative measure. Also I know F10 has been shown to be well tolerated but I dont like putting things into snake lungs unless i have a reason.

great. i havent had an ri yet, and am scrupulous about my temps, hygeine etc etc. but i dread going into the room one day and finding one.

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This is all very interesting! Especially as I really dont know much about them and I really want my snake to get better and survive!

Has anyone ever come out the other side of an RI with a success? If so, has nebulising been part of the procedure?

What else can I do to help get rid of the infection?

Thanks!

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